An idea - a constant stream of air might result in some dissipation of energy as the bucket passes through. Would the concept of a timed burst of air that's synchronised to the rotational speed (think WW1 fighters with timing chains shooting through the props) allow a greater efficiency?

Please make a electric motor with bell electromagnets

The reason why the turbine is more efficient is because the 2nd and 3rd Laws of Newton. Less air mass is displaced with the nozzle only configuration, hence less force is applied and less reaction happens to the opposite direction. That's my guess.

Wouldnt a francis wheel be the best for this? Efficient and the exhaust can be faced down to add to verticle thrust.

This vid is the history of steam engines from piston to steam turbine. I expect the conclusion is a 16mm multi-stage blade set with reversing blades between them?

Soooo, you reinvented the impulse turbine I get!?

@Tom Stanton check out the aerodynamics of your newest model printed. It could have some trouble there

Maximum efficiency of these turbines is when the turbines edge velocity is 1/2 of the jet stream velocity.

Keep stroking the algorithms folks - by commenting. Wonderful content, from an old fellow Brit :)

what about a turbine where each "blade" or "bucket" splits the airflow into two paths but the 3dprinted cross section of the blade includes a section from a tesla valve, so you take some of the incoming air and redirect it around to create a high pressure obstruction, which also pushes back pressure in the second chamber and pulls more energy out of the air slow? the problem is the time each blade is in contact with the stream is minimal, and then you have to deal with the effects it has on the rest of its journey around.. hrm

So can we call your air optimized version the "Micro Stanton Turbine"?

I normally watch stuff about video games and anime how tf is this in my recomended. I mean it was pretty frickin cool tho

Would a 90° cog ruin the efficiency? If not, you could try aiming the jet downwards and still power the propeller...

5:55 YOU JUST INVENTED THE STANTON TURBINE 👏

Have you investigated the design of centrifugal superchargers or turbo driven superchargers which are used to turn rotational energy into pressure and may be able to be reversed

4:50 this video is amazing

2:22 hnnnnnnnnnnnng

do a dry ice engine, for a bike, craft or animatronic ED-209

Prop moves more air than the nozzle, basic physics

Im pretty dumb, but maybe the turbine is bigger so its hitting more air particles, and causing more air particles to push back (newton’s third law). So im guessing surface area?

Hi, great video. an idea that popped into my head is to try two nozzles, above and below. not sure if the added weight will be worth it. Cheers!!

It would be really cool to see you try a bladeless fan design! Because you're starting with compressed air, there would be no moving parts.

I feel like it will end up looking like a turbo, for pressure efficiency it just needs to be fully enclosed

@TomScott really looks and sounds different in his newer videos huh?

Can you share the CAD files for the Pelton turbine? That thing is really cool and I'd like to try some things with it myself.

Let's play _Catch the Plane_

The reason the turbine is more efficient is impedance matching ;)

Would a 90° cog ruin the efficiency? If not, you could try aiming the jet downwards and still power the propeller...

Doesn't the air expand almost immediately after being thrown out the nozzle? The turbine utilises that momentum immediately, negating the decompression.

@tom stanton, u hv a nice house especially the lawn n surrounding area... Played it over n over whenever u r around n outside the house, its just beautiful...

0:45 that was so unexpected and funny

Im just curious if you take the wheel without the casing and put C shapped casing in the base that doesnt spin, and make it only1/4 to half, so all air is kept inside until it goes 1/4 to 1/2 way around then it comes out? - just a thought

Make a sistem that returns a part of the pressure to the source!

7:25 For why the turbine-propeller contraption is more efficient than just spitting out the air, it is the same stuff as why turbofan engines with large fans in front is more efficient than turbojet with afterburner. The amount of force (thrust) produced is affected by 2 major factors, speed , and mass of air moved. By spitting out the air out of the nozzle, we get air on very high speed, but only a small amount of air is being ejected. However, as long as the turbine contraption converts energy good enough that it could push way more air down with slower speed that higher force can be achieved and thus more efficient.

How about if you use a de Laval nozzle, would that change the thrust?

try making something with an Annular Wing design!

stop promoting plastic bottles , for once

I would think that the nozzle, alone, is less efficient because the air being ejected has no solid surface direct beneath it. This causes the compressed air to spread outward, giving a third of the horizontal motion, the other two thirds becoming vertical motion and not creating force on the same axis as the measuring instrument, but this is simplified to a two dimensional plain. In reality the true horizontal motion is a lot less than on third; this contradicts your graph, but the graph doesn’t show the true horizontal motion. Your graph also includes the air being disbursed at all three dimensional angle between horizontal and vertical angles (i.e. between all 90* on the x axis set in 360* on the z axis) with each consecutive angle having decrease amounts of force from the true horizontal motion. edit: The net force of the nozzle would be a little less than 1/5 of the net force of the nozzle and wheel.

i got a cool project for you watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiB4XD4OSIE it shows the strength of 3d printed gears. you should be able to 3d print a transmission for a 1 hp. but make a manual transmission the clutch everything all plastic and working for 1 hp. it may be small but its a transmission and not all 3d printers print in plastic. and 1hp is around 700 watts for its good for a generator

Will you be using (dry ice) in bottles to create your own pressure on demand (as a power source) ??

love your videos! awesome!

Can you please explain to me why the driving gear has smaller diameter and the driven gear larger diameter. Wouldn't it be much better if the driving gear > driven gear?

Why don't you try reusing the air that comes out to spin another wheel, sort of how a torque convertor works

Maybe change the nozzle size while the pressure of the bottle changes, dynamic nozzle diameter would be cool?

There is something about the slow motion footage of the water turbine at 1:56 that just screams STAGE 2. All that exhausted energy looks like it could be harnessed on another lower turbine rotating in the opposite direction. I always enjoy your videos. They make me think.

The whole point was to make it shoot out of the cup at zero velocity so a second rotor would not do anything if it's set up properly

@Scott Demoor Naturally at some point in this process, the fuel, be it water or air, will loose its ability to produce power, but that immediate discharge from the cup is very focused and a lot of energy just waiting to be harnessed. I'm not a turbine guy, but I think its worth exploring if it doesn't add too much weight and defeat the application parameters.

Adding a stator in combination with opposite direction rotor should greatly improve the final outcome. Ten years at G.E. making fuel controls tells me you're closer to a breakthrough than you realize.

Your turbine is pretty cool but very inefficient! you should make somekind of turboprop engine to exploit most of the energy in your tank !

The gears add a layer of inefficiency due to friction and that jazz - increasing the turbine diameter 5 times and mounting the propeller directly to the turbine would theoretically create a more efficient engine - though maybe with other downsides like size and weight

To keep the engine running at the same RPM, you could try using a spring-compressed diaphragm in your compressed air tank.

Random thought, is the air from flying going to interfere with the actual "engine" and if it does will you have to make some type of enclosure?

The incomplete project video 👍👍

A full size helicopter rotor only spins at 400rpm but the length of the rotors have the tips travelling at an incredible speed, thus the adequate lift. Just wondering how altering your rotor length would influence efficiency as well?

Can you build 3d manouvre gear from attack on titan

Awesome video. I tried tinkering with compressed air with buoyancy turbine. I felt that using buoyancy to convert energy was more efficient but havent got aroud to any mathematical calculations. Would it be possible to put my theory to test? Details of the patent are available at : https://patents.google.com/patent/US9627953B1/en

the turbile has a larger surface area

most people see an empty bottle optimists see a bottle of air tom stanton sees an engine powerful enough to power a plane

Use an enclosure to capture the whole turbine mechanism and leave an exhaust facing downwards, probably can convert wasted/exhausted air to more lifting power?

keep building/inventing! love your creative approach and explanations!

What/how do you collect and record data from the test stand.

This pneumatic turbine should be called the Stanton turbine.

Years ago I thought I was going to explode an empty soda bottle by installing an air coupling fitting into the cap and hooking up to shop pressure. Imagine my surprise when it handle full shop pressure like a pro.

How about many nozzles in the same gear? at wich number is it more efficient to just add an extra twin nozzle-gear set?

It's a nice air engineering.

Tom have you looked into flow choking? There is a limit to the amount of air that can go through an orfice once the flow reaches M=1

Why not try the Tesla Turbine

I saw this video the other day and I think you should try the technology with compressed air or a drone. https://youtu.be/bPZI6XoHi10

.

Hey strange request, but Ive been watching a lotta attack on titan, and was curious how well compressed air could be used as a winch.

Seems you try to reinvent the jet turbine.

I think that it is because of the propeller.

Try using a smaller nozzle opening, and make the initial tube itself wider too. This might help create a higher pressure coming out of the nozzle and might help with getting to a higher rpm. This is just a theory, but I kind of want to see if it will work.

Hi Tom, at 7:24, the Graph show that you get 35 seconds of thrust out of the pressure in the bottle. I'm a little confused by that. I get 4 to 5 seconds of thrust from a system I built. In your video with the drone, the graph also shows only 8 seconds of thrust. Could it be that the x-axis in your graph is wrong?

@Tom Stanton Thanks for clarifying this. Calculated by simple equations, a 1mm straight through nozzle should end up with something about 0.47N thrust. I will check the thrust and duration on my setup again, but i never reached a duration above 8seconds

The x-axis is correct because the diameter is so small (1mm). I think the nozzle I used on the gas thruster drone was 2-3mm in diameter, which is about 6.5x more cross-sectional area, hence the 6.5 x 5 = 32.5 seconds.

If there was some way to maintain the downstream pressure, could you improve the performance of the application? Rather than having the force decreasing over time, you’d have a more constant force which can more easily be applied to a mechanism. Something such as a pilot-operated pressure reducing valve would be cool to see but I really don’t know if this is at all feasible with air and at such a small size.

That Kiwi co project at the end looked sick. Wouldve loved to play with that as a kid

This pneumatic turbine should be called the Stanton turbine.

Also, could you use the leaving air to drive another pelton turbine?

Would it make more efficient to put wholes into the blades? So make it work similar to the air breaks on gliders?

Tom I'm looking for someone to maybe help out with arduino coding. Is this something you can do. If so could I have an email address

Fun fact: the turbine wheel you've created is called an "impulse turbine" and the devices that direct the flow into a gas turbine IRL are called "nozzles" even if they don't look quite as literal as what you've got going on here. If you want to increase efficiency and/or decrease mass, make the turbine inlets only as wide as or a little wider than the outlet of your nozzle.

Hi tom if you write discovery australia kölnbrein you see the %92 efficiency turbine type

Mr. Stanton: I would suggest you use a 4500 psi Carbon fibre paintball tank (smallest size 13 ci) and a first stage Hero reg followed by a second stage Polarstar Micro regulator. This allows the use of a LOT of compressed air in a regulated fashion. As you know this means your nozzle(s) will continously blow at the same speed rather than drop off quickly. It also means you have a lot more air to work with. When powering multiple props (which is what you aim to do with an air powered drone) you will easily create the lift needed to raise the tank and reg setup and the rest off the ground. Hanging the tank vertically below the prop level will help balance the drone while it travels upwards. Hope to see this happen in one of your follow up video’s. You really want to prove sustained flight is possible. I believe this to be the way! Kind regards, Marten

Me at the end of this video - ohh ok cool

Just a thought. The pelton wheel is driven at one or a few points and the rest of it's travel the buckets aren't producing. They are actually wasting energy churning the air. This is acceptable at the speeds it operates due to the difference in density between the driving water and the resisting air, and the buckets being small and not catching much air. When you switch to air, the turbine spins much faster. Now those buckets that weren't doing much for 90% of the rotation are catching air and working as a fan. I think to really improve it from here you will need to design a turbine that is supplied pressure on all the blades at the same time. With such a small supply, this will be tricky. I am thinking a tiny diameter to reduce the circumference, and tiny blades as all must be supplied. At this scale though you will be getting into laminar flow which behaves differently. You could also try four nozzles on a smaller turbine, but it may be difficult to make the nozzles small enough. That should reduce losses. I think you may find this book helpful. ISBN 978-0-12-415954-9 Fluid Mechanics and Thermodynamics of Turbomachinery.

I noticed that a lot of air is going into the void around the turbine blades. What if the turbine is enclosed in a closed housing so that the air moves along its entire circumference and exits near the nozzle. Also, make the outlet directed downward so that the remaining energy gives an impulse in the right direction. It seems to me that this would increase efficiency several times. Sorry for possible mistakes, I am using a translator.

What if you made the "well" (or "pocket") of each "paddle" on the wheel out of an elastic material (like the thin rubber of a balloon), so that the internal volume of each "paddle" could expand to accommodate the gas at varying pressures, sort of like an elastic "sail." You could theoretically extract more of the kinetic energy of the moving gas by temporarily storing the energy of the expanding gas as potential energy in the form of stretched rubber, which would expel the gas even after the "paddle" has left the path of the compressed air stream from the nozzle. Just a thought.

Im mot so good at Engineering but i habe an idea what you micht could try How about smaller butt multiple nozzles to power the wheel?

You are awesome so much information.

very cool it could challenge mark Rober's worlds longest field goal robot.

Hey Tom, I love your stuff! Just wanted to ask if you've ever thought about using a bladeless propulsion system, (like Dyson's bladeless fans) I think it would be a fun venture for your aircraft especially when compared to your compressed air engine.

I'm guessing hot air and a 3d printed bell nozzle would make a difference. Would be interesting to see this same experiment as a steam/hot air/hot water variant! P.S new here, hey everyone 🖖

Tom5 makes me want to spend more time in R&D. I bet there are an ocean of world changing ideas already discovered... but never yet thought to be applied in a way that compketely revolutionizes the world and paves a road into a wilder, more exciting, more fascinating future. Trailblazing revolutionary changes, not just evolutionary changes.

You can also try to use a scroll motor to transform the pressure directly to rotary movement.

What if the gear was bigger instead of smaller

Do you realise that your sponsor Kiwi Co has no connection to New Zealand and is inappropriately using the word 'Kiwi'?

I originally told the idea to my physics teacher, then I found this video.

Shorter tubes, and move nozle as close as possible to turbine

So what happens if you use air as the energy source to propel water over the turbine? Is the weight too high?

Viscous dissipation = useless energy loss, that's why

The nozzle wastes more kinetic energy, as the air is only decelerated by the surrounding air, while the wheel can better restrict the nozzles blast, meaning it transfers more energy. Also the gearbox and propeller make better use of the gained energy at putting it out as lift, which works again better with a static plastic propeller, than with air only.

when he smashed integza with that bottle with sound... lol

when he smashed integza with that bottle with sound... lol

Another interesting test you could run is the pitch efficiency of the blades themselves. While stationary, a prop will develop a certain thrust, in some cases, not much, however, move that prop through air at a certain speed, and it will generate quite a lot more thrust because the blades are no longer stalling...

Is there a way to use a spring and plunger to push air from the air tank for more consistent air pressure?